Curse

Spangly_boy · Jun 11, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Epic thread here.As the OP of the other post winging its way around the forum, I do have to say, apart from the occasional troll, there is a lot of constructive criticism going on and its applauded.

Avarre, I think you captured a lot of people with your true words.

phan · Jun 11, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Thx for doing this Avarre ;

Weird that you have time for this during your exams ; but you have put your text in a way that completly resembles my opinion .

You sir ; are epic for posting this and lets all hope Anet will listen to this text .

And now ffs change your avatar back you mofo xD

Sonata .. thx for that aswell ; it's nice to see people with the same opinion as me and people that are really contributing to the thread [unlike me ; sry ]

;

tmakinen · Jun 11, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Great stuff here. I'd like to thank Sonata for the 'novel' which was an excellent read

Greedy Gus · Jun 11, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

I think the main problem has been the critics and the hypocrisy that has come out of them. Let’s face it, the real issue here is people who play GW don’t really know what they want. Yes, there has been poor execution on A-net’s part of fixing certain features. However, there is no general consensus to how GW should be. Instead, there are too many conflicting views.

This speaks more to the failings of the community relations team. I know far too many words have already been spent in the past explaining this, but its important to look back and see how good feedback was rarely culled properly from the chaff. Any large community will have tons of conflicting opinions being spouted online, which is why companies like ANet pay full-time salaries to a team who is supposed to be the important link that intelligently filters information in both directions.

Zora Storm · Jun 11, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

To the OP, great layout and discussion. Although I do not agree with everything that was being said, it is very commendable for bringing it out to the light in one thread.

Sonata - thank you very much for your response!
That is exactly how I feel and I appreciate your voice and input in this ongoing discussion.

Fact of the matter is, no matter what Anet does or will do in the future, I am very happy having paid them my money to have played this game. It has brought an immense hours amount of pure gaming joy and it has also saved me a ton of money from not having to look at or purchase any other game for the past 2 years. Honestly, that in itself proves (to me) how grandiose this game is and has been.

StormDragonZ · Jun 11, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

My favorite part, that I agree so much on, when reading that was:

Quote:

Let’s get something straight. I’m not upset because people are achieving things without effort that I worked for. I’m not annoyed that people are using it. I don’t even care. What I do have a problem with is you have shown, time and again, that you as developers and you as a company are willing to flat-out ignore your game design and make changes that are devastating to the overall depth of your game.

TwinRaven · Jun 11, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

There has been no game for me with the draw and appeal of GW. I loved it from beta. I watched it grow and change over time and came to the realization, myself, that the game was like a bad relationship: full of promises and hope, but completely one-sided. GW became a bit like the bad/crazy-ass girlfriend that you couldn't help calling late on a Friday night, because you remember what fun she was before you found out she was bipolar. She's still pretty and full of charm, but there's the underlying bear, ready to bite your head off and break all your stuff. You are NOT allowed to discuss her issues, because this is HER relationship and you just happen to be in it.

After some disappointment in not seeing my DAW entry in the game, after a year of waiting, I posted a goodbye thread back in February (summarily closed and deleted by mods for its no doubt blasphemous content) and became a bit of a lurker. Here I sit, reading about all the disappointments others are having with the game and flash back to why I left. Tedium, friends lists gone dark, failed guild after failed guild, broken builds/skills, unfulfilled hopes and the same QQ threads posted over and over about the game being broken without resolution (NOT suggesting this is a QQ).

So, what now, gents/ladies? We have, some of us, cared about GW enough to invest a few bucks, maybe a few thousand hours...and we are confronted with the realization that while we cared, ANet was just doing business and now they plan on moving on and we have a choice of following along or not. Whether you like it or not, you are getting the same old girlfriend...same old relationship.

Now, we can make a plea that this time be different, that the crazy bitch stays on her meds, or we will walk away. Problem is, she will be with anyone for the money and there is no cure for bipolar disorder. I chose to walk away once, with hope that next time will be different. A self-imposed dillusion that next time ANet takes my money we will have a good time and GW2 will be everything I want until I decide it's over...isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

To the OP: Well put, well said, nicely done, great thread...but don't expect too much from corporations. Some of the people in them care, but not enough to make the game many of us want. They will take our money and try to please as many people as possible, thus reducing their great ideas to appeasing the lowest common denominator possible. They would rather make a mediocre-good game that sells to millions, than make an excellent game that sells to hundreds of thousands. It isn't that they don't care, it's just that the average player is just that: average. Making a game to suit the average means making a game that is average/mediocre.

All those who flame you for thinking too highly of the potential of the game just see it for what it is, not what it can be. GW2 has the potential to be a VERY good game, even an excellent game...but be realistic in your expectations: nothing will make them care but money, nothing we can say or do will change their minds except not buying what they are selling. The poor schleps with the ideas will be overridden by their corporate masters and they will be forced to make the game more "approachable" to very bad players, because they have money too.

I hope to god/God/gods they read your post and take some head in the message there, but I hold no real hope for it...they are after all bipolar.

Ate of DK · Jun 11, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Well written post Avarre.

I've been playing a long time myself and until recently I always had something to do in this wonderful game. Splitting PvE and PvP, adding Heroes and PvE only skills were Anets biggest mistakes.

Also the current lack of information on what Anet is doing doesn't add any joy. Do we get something before GW2 is the main concern.

sindex · Jun 11, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

This speaks more to the failings of the community relations team. I know far too many words have already been spent in the past explaining this, but its important to look back and see how good feedback was rarely culled properly from the chaff. Any large community will have tons of conflicting opinions being spouted online, which is why companies like ANet pay full-time salaries to a team who is supposed to be the important link that intelligently filters information in both directions.

Yeah I can easily say it was the part of failing of the CR team. However, some of the arguments got through to the developers of what we “supposedly wanted.” Of course, I’m not saying it’s entirely the fault of the critics or the people who play GW. I am trying relay the idea that it’s far to easy to point the finger at A-net’s poor execution on developing policies. Maybe you are right, it could be the “middleman” destroying Guild Wars, but I highly doubt it’s just one common factor here. It’s combination of symptoms.

Izzy and some of the other A-net developers have complained about confusion in how to approach some of these issues, and keep everyone happy. It has not happened since day one.

In addition, I don’t believe Guild Wars is dying it’s quite the opposite. It’s the old getting pushed out while the new comes in on a relative basis.

stretchs · Jun 11, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

It is truly amazing the gamut of emotions that a game can provoke. While being in a demographic growing in size in the gaming market, I am not probably considered a typical gamer, 33 married and whatnot. That said, Avarre has made some very good points, and he did them in a concise (well as concise as a 3600 word post can be) and intelligent manner, which is something that cannot be said for 90% of the posts here. As much as we would all love to have an ANET employee posting on this subject, by page 10, it is unfortunately an out of control train, one which even the most savvy CR individual would probably not step in front of. I hope that it does strike a chord in the devs of the game many of us have enjoyed for 3yrs so that we can continue to enjoy the current version and look forward to a new version.

PS the withholding of GW2 information really does annoy the crud out of many of us dying to know just the smallest tidbits/images that would really tide us over for a while.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 11, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinRaven

They will take our money and try to please as many people as possibly, thus reducing their great ideas to appeasing the lowest common denominator possible. They would rather make a mediocre-good game that sells to millions, than make an excellent game that sells to hundreds of thousands. It isn't that they don't care, it's just that the average player is just that: average. Making a game to suit the average means making a game that is average/mediocre.

General Motors make Cadilacs and Chevrolets, Cadilacs are for what gamers call leets and Chevrolets are made for the average person. Cadiliacs are excellent cars and Chevrolets are average cars with some leet models. If GM were to eliminate one line which would it be? Making a game for the average player is smart business and doesn't mean it is a mediocre game. Please get off your high leet horse and come into the real world where your most business will come from the average person.

Ravious · Jun 11, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

Yeah I can easily say it was the part of failing of the CR team. However, some of the arguments got through to the developers of what we “supposedly wanted.” Of course, I’m not saying it’s entirely the fault of the critics or the people who play GW. I am trying relay the idea that it’s far to easy to point the finger at A-net’s poor execution on developing policies. Maybe you are right, it could be the “middleman” destroying Guild Wars, but I highly doubt it’s just one common factor here. It’s combination of symptoms.

Izzy and some of the other A-net developers have complained about confusion in how to approach some of these issues, and keep everyone happy. It has not happened since day one.

Gaile has stated many, many times that she catches the devs reading the forums. So while the CM report may not convey exactly what the outspoken community means, the devs do read it themselves often enough.

Kinn · Jun 11, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I agree with absolutely everything Avarre has written in the OP, but I cannot understand why everyone is praising the style in which it is written.

It is written in a condescending, angry style. You will not increase the chances of Anet paying any attention to your concerns by being condescending. In fact, I'd say you're decreasing the chances quite dramatically.

around · Jun 11, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

General Motors make Cadilacs and Chevrolets, Cadilacs are for what gamers call leets and Chevrolets are made for the average person. Cadiliacs are excellent cars and Chevrolets are average cars with some leet models. If GM were to eliminate one line which would it be? Making a game for the average player is smart business and doesn't mean it is a mediocre game. Please get off your high leet horse and come into the real world where your most business will come from the average person.

GW was still selling like hot cakes BEFORE they dumbed it down.

DreamWind · Jun 11, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote: